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burleyman
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Posted 7:27 am, 05/05/2015
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Late to the party. Congratulations on finding the cause, Elmo.
One way to extend the life of any type underground wire is to put it into relatively inexpensive black plastic water pipe so that it is protected from damage. Locals have rigs on tractors for burying plastic water pipe without excessive lawn damage.
Plugging a small U shaped piece of insulated wire or other shorting devices into a 110 volt outlet as a short is a very common method for finding unmarked circuit breakers. Whether a short piece or a long piece buried in the yard, the effect is the same. I have no idea as to the wire size used for invisible fencing. As long as the wire size can handle the amperage required to trip the breaker, almost instant breaker tripping or fuse blowing and no voltage present. Wire too small, heat, smoke, and more likely burned fingers than being shocked. No smoking or tripping, open or high resistance bad spot somewhere. Although wired with 14 gauge wire, a 15 amp circuit will trip quickly with a 16 without smoking.
Sticking just one end of the underground fence wire into the hot side of a GFCI breaker will cause it to trip if there is insulation leakage in the wire.
Sticking one end of the wire into the hot side of the outlet, then measuring current flow from the damaged wire into the earth with an accurate ammeter is another possibility.
Or just screw all that and find someone with a signal injector and locator to find and repair just one damaged spot.
More people are killed by 110 volts than anything else electrical. Be careful.
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Truthseeker911
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Posted 1:25 pm, 05/02/2015
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Glad he could help a little. Sorry to hear it will have to be replaced sooner than later. Dang wires!
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Basking
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Posted 1:07 pm, 05/02/2015
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Next time call IF and have a professional install it. They will use a proper underground wire with a PE jacket instead of pvc or THHN
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Elmo Cleghorn
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Posted 12:50 pm, 05/02/2015
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the fence is now back online. i have to agree Basking, that rf choke did nothing to help me find the problem. it would appear that i have to change the entire fence sometime in the near future though. the buried wire shows signs of being very brittle. the testing equipment seems to confirm there are various nicks along the wire due to a breakdown of the covering. sooner or later it is going to fail.
fpr now, i am off to work on a new screen door.
have a good day all. thanks to all suggestions and help. can't begin to express how much i appreciate help when i have no idea what to do next.
Truth, that guy is a treasure. 
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Basking
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Posted 12:06 pm, 05/02/2015
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Elmo Cleghorn
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Posted 11:52 am, 05/02/2015
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Basking, the choke is used along with an AM radio set at a low frequency. the choke is engaged at the transmitter and the radio is used to walk the fence line. the radio pulses and that pulse changes when there is a break in the fence. the 2 times i have walked the fence with the choke, it has not changed at all
but to add to my continuing story .....
thank you for your continuing help Truth. thanks for sending in the troops for me. nothing like a man with big tools. although they continue to investigate my problem and have actually found a break, there still might be something wrong. they are looking for it now.
for those not understanding, someone has come to my rescue with far more sophisticated equipment than the average homeowner would have. this problem will be solved today
its always a good feeling when neighbor helps neighbor. i know it sounds goopy but i am always appreciative of such assistance.
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Basking
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Posted 10:13 am, 05/02/2015
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Elmo, what are you doing with the choke? They are passive devices and can't alert anything.
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Basking
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Posted 10:10 am, 05/02/2015
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Jason, sticking the wire in the outlet isn't to test it. If it is a partial break or a bad connection, taking the ends of the fence and sticking it in the outlet will either weld the bad spot together, or burn it open. You won't find a partial break with a radio. And it won't damage the equipment, because you aren't hooked up to the equipment at the time.
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high_on_life
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Posted 10:00 am, 05/02/2015
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i understand the post about the more "mobile" unit. i have owned large breed dogs for about 3 decades. units as described don't fit my needs or theirs. i don't want them to potty that close to my house where kids play, that is my requirement. my current dog is large and needs space to run and play that is her requirement
and that, my friend...is what seperates "the Elmo's" from many other ppl!
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Elmo Cleghorn
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Posted 8:59 am, 05/02/2015
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i appreciate the advice so far. i plan to work on this again today and have some help coming. i don't want to focus on it but truly wish this did not turn into a disagreement amongst posters. but onward
today someone is bringing a meter to test the actual inground wire. just for information sake, i have about 1 1/2 to 2 acres within the fenced area.
its definitely not the collar that has been removed from the equation for almost a week now.
i am having trouble believing it is the transmitter. i installed a new one yesterday, along with new lightning/surge protector.
the outlet itself has been tested and doesn't seem to be the issue.
it has got to be the wire. for some reason the rf choke is not alerting to where the break is. if i don't find the break today, i am calling someone on monday. and i agree, it might be time for me to have new wire installed.
i understand the post about the more "mobile" unit. i have owned large breed dogs for about 3 decades. units as described don't fit my needs or theirs. i don't want them to potty that close to my house where kids play, that is my requirement. my current dog is large and needs space to run and play that is her requirement.
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Guitar
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Posted 7:05 am, 05/02/2015
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Where I worked we did lock out tag out on everything would have been fired on the spot for doing something like that. Before those days of lock out tag out came, admittedly I've seen people bypass safeties and guilty of said myself but the people I saw do things like this knew what they could do and get by with it safely.
At risk of repeating myself which I'm doing I just felt it necessary to again say, I wouldn't ever give someone that type of advice not knowing their backgrounds. By far to many variables exists when dealing with electricity.
I wouldn't tell someone to stuff wires in an outlet on a public forum especially on a public forum simply because some little kid comes along see's that and thinks it's okay to stuff things into an outlet. Chances of that maybe slim but me personally, I wouldn't want to be responsible for some kid, teenager or even an adult being hurt or killed because they read it's okay to stuff wires into an outlet. Suppose they didn't choose a 110 outlet to play in and used a 220 outlet instead? What then? Regardless a 110 outlet could kill especially in older homes.
We can do things a 100 times and get by with it but the 101 time you do it you're dead.
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GoWilkes
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Posted 5:49 am, 05/02/2015
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Oops, just realized that the "radio" trick was mentioned by Basking earlier in the thread. I didn't mean to duplicate the suggestion, but it is an easy one and worth remembering.
As far as I can tell, you only have 3 things that can go wrong: the wire, the control box, and the collar itself. If you use the voltmeter to make sure the voltage coming from the box is good, and use the ohmmeter to make sure that the wire is intact, then the only thing left is the collar. If you're using the factory wire and it's 6 years old, though, it might not be a bad idea to replace it, anyway. I understand that the factory wire can have pretty thin insulation, which can allow moisture in and cause corrosion. Replacement wire is fairly inexpensive: https://www.flexpetz.com/facto...18-gauge-500-feet.htmlYou may be able to find it locally for less, I just did a quick Google search.
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GoWilkes
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Posted 5:26 am, 05/02/2015
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FWIW, I have a bit of experience in electricity myself (although dated), so I might be able to offer some decent advice.
First, the advice to test the wire itself is the most likely to find the problem. The resistance of a "good" wire that's about 600' long will be around 4.5 ohms, but if the wire is broken then it will be infinite.
Another trick to find a broken wire is to use an AM radio, tuned to a station with a fairly clean signal (no music, just white noise). Walk along the path of the wire with the radio, and a broken wire may disrupt the AM signal with loud static.
I agree that Basking's advice to stick the wires in the outlet is somewhat dangerous, as you're bypassing the built-in safety protections. Granted, this will tell you if the problem is in the control box, and I've seen people do similar things many a time, but IMO it's smarter (and safer) to remove the output wires, then use your multimeter to test for voltage at the output terminals. I'm guessing that the control box is really an AC/DC converter, and that the voltage coming out is DC.
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Basking
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Posted 12:21 am, 05/02/2015
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It's DIY, and intended for cheap morons. Fitting you bought it
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Basking
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Posted 11:59 pm, 05/01/2015
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You stick with that wireless system. It's fitting for your standards. And stop confusing DIY systems with professional products. You only continue to show your ignorance
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Feel Burger
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Posted 11:47 pm, 05/01/2015
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Electrician.
But electrocuted would work.
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Feel Burger
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Posted 11:47 pm, 05/01/2015
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Seriously. About what? I recommended the base system. With no digging. It's much better.
Digging isn't worth it. I've seen plenty of dogs take advantage of those systems.
Don't know why the amateur electrocution basking had to make this an argument. But
That's.
All.
Good.
Feel Burger.
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Basking
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Posted 11:41 pm, 05/01/2015
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Once again, you don't have a clue
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